disc repair

"Jeff Gaines" wrote in message

 > On 25/11/2004 DaveyT wrote:
 >
  >> running xp home sp1 and having problems running nortons disk
  >> doctor.each time that i try it tells me that another system has
  >> exclusive rights over the c drive.I am trying to run this as i have
  >> problems with program files and would like to repair these.What can i
  >> do to get this to run?Da
 >
 > This is quite normal, it's Windows that is using the files.
 >
 > Norton should give you the opportunity to run at next boot when it
 > realises that it can't get exclusive access to a drive.


And under NT-based Windows (NT4, 2000, XP), I believe Norton Disk Doctor
doesn't do anything at all. As I recall (I dumped the Norton Utilities
a long time ago), all it does is run CHKDSK. Well, you don't need
Norton Disk Doctor to do that for you. Just open a DOS prompt and run
CHKDSK itself and it will tell you if the volume is locked and offers
the option to run on the next Windows load (i.e., you'll need to do a
reboot).

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 >> Stay informed about: disc repair 

....
| And under NT-based Windows (NT4, 2000, XP), I believe Norton
Disk Doctor
| doesn't do anything at all. As I recall (I dumped the Norton
Utilities
| a long time ago), all it does is run CHKDSK. Well, you don't
need
| Norton Disk Doctor to do that for you. Just open a DOS prompt
and run
| CHKDSK itself and it will tell you if the volume is locked and
offers
| the option to run on the next Windows load (i.e., you'll need
to do a
| reboot).
....

Uhhhh, you believe? Haven't used it in a long time? Then why
did you bother putting the wear and tear on your fingertips?
There is just a tad more to it.

Norton System Doctor includes Norton Disk Doctor and Surface Test
sensors that notify you when a potential disk problem is
detected. Norton Disk Doctor runs automatically to diagnose the
problem and make immediate repairs.

Norton Disk Doctor performs several tests on the disk, checking
everything from the partition table to the physical surface. If
Norton Disk Doctor finds a problem, it notifies you before it
makes repairs. If you set Norton Disk Doctor to automatically fix
errors, repairs are made automatically. After it diagnoses and
repairs a disk, Norton Disk Doctor displays a report that lists
the problems that were found, the problems that were fixed, and
the areas of the disk that are problem-free.

You can run Norton Disk Doctor and examine your disk from the
program CD.

When not to use Norton Disk Doctor
Do not run the DOS version of Norton Disk Doctor on
partitions that were created with Linux FDISK or Disk Druid. If
you choose to fix errors on partitions that were created with
these utilities, it is critical that you make an Undo file.

Use Norton Disk Doctor to fix an invalid partition only if it is
completely inaccessible from Windows or DOS.

Norton Disk Doctor can only revive FAT or FAT32 partitions on
computers that are running Windows 2000/XP. It cannot revive NTFS
partitions.

To repair corrupted boot records, use the DOS version of Norton
Disk Doctor; do not use the Windows version. The Windows version
diagnoses the problem, but it will not repair the boot record as
well as the DOS version of Norton Disk Doctor.

Norton Disk Doctor might report an error if you use a third-party
boot loader. This error report can be safely ignored.


Regards,

Pop




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 >> Stay informed about: disc repair 

"Pop" wrote in message

 >
 > Uhhhh, you believe? Haven't used it in a long time? Then why
 > did you bother putting the wear and tear on your fingertips?
 > There is just a tad more to it.

Yep, superficial stuff to mask that it duplicates the functionality of
CHKDSK. For the big errors that it "discovers", it just schedules
CHKDSK to run on the next reboot: Disk Doctor links to chkdsk.exe to
past parameters to it for pre-GUI scanning. Disk Doctor cannot repair
index corruption in NTFS, and I don't recall that it can rebuild a file
from a corrupted state based on the journaling info (again for NTFS).
So how much "repairing" is Disk Doctor doing if it has to revert to
running CHKDSK to get the actual work done?

 > Norton System Doctor includes Norton Disk Doctor

I suppose they had to wrap it up to look different to con users that
something was different to qualify paying for the purchase or upgrade
cost. Also, I thought System Doctor was their monitor tool. It isn't
System Doctor that includes Disk Doctor. It is Norton Utilities that
includes both Disk Doctor AND System Doctor (see their description at
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://snipurl.com/awfl" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/awfl</a>). I did not address the other utilities
included in the Norton Utilities bloatware "package". I only discussed
Disk Doctor. I did not discuss the synergy of the multiple tools in the
Norton Utilities package which includes Disk Doctor, their DOS
utilities, their monitoring tool (System Doctor), their SpeedDisk (which
conflicts with the Diskeeper Lite included as defrag in Windows XP and
with the prefetch used in Windows XP), the extreme hazard of using their
WinDoctor in letting it make wide-ranging automatic registry changes
based on a limited experience database encoded into it, Wipe Info which
was unavailble for awhile on NT-based versions of Windows but was easy
supplanted by the better and freebie Eraser tool, or System Information
which is superfluous with the utilities included in Windows XP or
available for free, like AIDA32 (which became Everest Home minus the
software product key info) and BelArc Advisor. Since the OP never
mentioned WHICH version of SystemWorks they have (which includes Norton
Utilities which includes Disk Doctor), we really don't know what feature
set is available to the OP. Personally I found System Doctor to be a
pig on resources and slowed every system on which it was loaded so I
never bothered to leave it running.

 > and Surface Test
 > sensors that notify you when a potential disk problem is
 > detected.

Yeah, no surprise there since "CHKDSK /R" does the same surface scan.
Or maybe you are covertly switching back to System Doctor for the
monitoring and attempting to infer that functionality is part of Disk
Doctor.

 > Norton Disk Doctor runs automatically to diagnose the
 > problem and make immediate repairs.

Only the same ones that CHKDSK will repair when the system partition is
in use or for another volume that isn't locked.

 > Norton Disk Doctor performs several tests on the disk, checking
 > everything from the partition table to the physical surface.

 > If Norton Disk Doctor finds a problem, it notifies you before it
 > makes repairs.

Same for "CHKDSK" with no switches which will only the report problems
that it finds without fixing them. Of course, if you use a multiboot
manager or security product that uses a custom MBR bootstrap program and
uses non-standard entries in the partition table and the partition table
is not in it default offset location then Disk Doctor will ruin your
setup.

Perhaps Disk Doctor has improved and actually checks the partition type
recorded in the partition entries within the partition table. It didn't
do it before. However, there are multiple partition types which can be
used against the same partition as their definition has never really
been standardized but only accepted through de facto usage (see
partition types defined at <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://snipurl.com/6al2," target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/6al2,</a>
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://snipurl.com/awgl," target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/awgl,</a> and <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://snipurl.com/awgp" target="_blank">http://snipurl.com/awgp</a>). Since there is
no standards body dictating what partition type numbers are used by what
file systems then how is Disk Doctor going to "fix" a partition using
file system X so the partition type in the partition entry in the
partition table has the correct but non-standardized value? It
*guesses* by inspecting the file system and using whatever Symantec has
decided is their interpretation of the de facto partition type number
list.

 > If you set Norton Disk Doctor to automatically fix
 > errors, repairs are made automatically.

Same for "CHKDSK /F" or "CHKDSK /R" (for those that can be fixed while
the system partition is inuse, and the same restrictions as for Norton
Disk Doctor).

 > After it diagnoses and
 > repairs a disk, Norton Disk Doctor displays a report that lists
 > the problems that were found, the problems that were fixed,

Same for the summary output at the end of CHKDSK.

 > and the areas of the disk that are problem-free.

This is important? You run the tool to report what is bad; otherwise,
just a summary output is sufficient to let you know it was good.

 > You can run Norton Disk Doctor and examine your disk from the
 > program CD.

CHKDSK will run from Recovery Console mode which you can install and run
the hard drive or use the bootable Windows install CD to have it load
the Recovery Console.

Disk Doctor is like CHKDSK on steroids but only *WITH* the added tools
in the Norton Utilities suite. Disk Doctor alone doesn't outshine
CHKDSK. Do you need the bloat of the suite when you want to just use
Disk Doctor's duplicated functionality of CHKDSK? I got rid of Norton
Utilities first from SystemWorks Pro when I had replaced each of its
utilities with something free or better. When I no longer needed Ghost
(after comparing it against DriveImage), and WinFax became a dead-end
product (and Windows XP includes a faxing service for the really basic
faxing that I need since everything these days is via e-mail), and I
couldn't use GoBack because it usurps the MBR bootstrap area which
obviated using a multiboot manager (and GoBack won't chain the bootstrap
programs as do some security products, like Safeboot) then I finally
dumped Systemworks Pro. For those that don't want to hunt for equal or
better utilities, many of which are free, then the synergy of buying
into a tool suite is tempting because it is easy.
 >> Stay informed about: disc repair 

No arguement, except ... you ass-u-me too much for the user, and
under estimate the little tweaks and such that makes it so much
more valuable than simply trying to use chkdsk. You also seem to
ass-u-me I don't know what chkdsk/scandisk etc are, but you are
wrong.
Don't make life more complex than it is when it isn't
necessary. That kind of attitude, IMO, puts a wart on the ass
of progress by ass-u-me-ing you know when progress is progress
and when it isn't.

I don't plan to debate this any further; if you wish to contnye
to rant, then so be it; I save ranting for more entertaining
drivel than this.

Regards,

Pop


"_Vanguard_"
wrote in message
| "Pop" wrote in message
|
| >
| > Uhhhh, you believe? Haven't used it in a long time? Then
why
| > did you bother putting the wear and tear on your fingertips?
| > There is just a tad more to it.
|
| Yep, superficial stuff to mask that it duplicates the
functionality of
| CHKDSK. For the big errors that it "discovers", it just
schedules
| CHKDSK to run on the next reboot: Disk Doctor links to
chkdsk.exe to
| past parameters to it for pre-GUI scanning. Disk Doctor cannot
repair
| index corruption in NTFS, and I don't recall that it can
rebuild a file
| from a corrupted state based on the journaling info (again for
NTFS).
| So how much "repairing" is Disk Doctor doing if it has to
revert to
| running CHKDSK to get the actual work done?
|
| > Norton System Doctor includes Norton Disk Doctor
|
| I suppose they had to wrap it up to look different to con users
that
| something was different to qualify paying for the purchase or
upgrade
| cost. Also, I thought System Doctor was their monitor tool.
It isn't
| System Doctor that includes Disk Doctor. It is Norton
Utilities that
| includes both Disk Doctor AND System Doctor (see their
description at
| http://snipurl.com/awfl). I did not address the other
utilities
| included in the Norton Utilities bloatware "package". I only
discussed
| Disk Doctor. I did not discuss the synergy of the multiple
tools in the
| Norton Utilities package which includes Disk Doctor, their DOS
| utilities, their monitoring tool (System Doctor), their
SpeedDisk (which
| conflicts with the Diskeeper Lite included as defrag in Windows
XP and
| with the prefetch used in Windows XP), the extreme hazard of
using their
| WinDoctor in letting it make wide-ranging automatic registry
changes
| based on a limited experience database encoded into it, Wipe
Info which
| was unavailble for awhile on NT-based versions of Windows but
was easy
| supplanted by the better and freebie Eraser tool, or System
Information
| which is superfluous with the utilities included in Windows XP
or
| available for free, like AIDA32 (which became Everest Home
minus the
| software product key info) and BelArc Advisor. Since the OP
never
| mentioned WHICH version of SystemWorks they have (which
includes Norton
| Utilities which includes Disk Doctor), we really don't know
what feature
| set is available to the OP. Personally I found System Doctor
to be a
| pig on resources and slowed every system on which it was loaded
so I
| never bothered to leave it running.
|
| > and Surface Test
| > sensors that notify you when a potential disk problem is
| > detected.
|
| Yeah, no surprise there since "CHKDSK /R" does the same surface
scan.
| Or maybe you are covertly switching back to System Doctor for
the
| monitoring and attempting to infer that functionality is part
of Disk
| Doctor.
|
| > Norton Disk Doctor runs automatically to diagnose the
| > problem and make immediate repairs.
|
| Only the same ones that CHKDSK will repair when the system
partition is
| in use or for another volume that isn't locked.
|
| > Norton Disk Doctor performs several tests on the disk,
checking
| > everything from the partition table to the physical surface.
|
| > If Norton Disk Doctor finds a problem, it notifies you before
it
| > makes repairs.
|
| Same for "CHKDSK" with no switches which will only the report
problems
| that it finds without fixing them. Of course, if you use a
multiboot
| manager or security product that uses a custom MBR bootstrap
program and
| uses non-standard entries in the partition table and the
partition table
| is not in it default offset location then Disk Doctor will ruin
your
| setup.
|
| Perhaps Disk Doctor has improved and actually checks the
partition type
| recorded in the partition entries within the partition table.
It didn't
| do it before. However, there are multiple partition types
which can be
| used against the same partition as their definition has never
really
| been standardized but only accepted through de facto usage (see
| partition types defined at http://snipurl.com/6al2,
| http://snipurl.com/awgl, and http://snipurl.com/awgp). Since
there is
| no standards body dictating what partition type numbers are
used by what
| file systems then how is Disk Doctor going to "fix" a partition
using
| file system X so the partition type in the partition entry in
the
| partition table has the correct but non-standardized value? It
| *guesses* by inspecting the file system and using whatever
Symantec has
| decided is their interpretation of the de facto partition type
number
| list.
|
| > If you set Norton Disk Doctor to automatically fix
| > errors, repairs are made automatically.
|
| Same for "CHKDSK /F" or "CHKDSK /R" (for those that can be
fixed while
| the system partition is inuse, and the same restrictions as for
Norton
| Disk Doctor).
|
| > After it diagnoses and
| > repairs a disk, Norton Disk Doctor displays a report that
lists
| > the problems that were found, the problems that were fixed,
|
| Same for the summary output at the end of CHKDSK.
|
| > and the areas of the disk that are problem-free.
|
| This is important? You run the tool to report what is bad;
otherwise,
| just a summary output is sufficient to let you know it was
good.
|
| > You can run Norton Disk Doctor and examine your disk from the
| > program CD.
|
| CHKDSK will run from Recovery Console mode which you can
install and run
| the hard drive or use the bootable Windows install CD to have
it load
| the Recovery Console.
|
| Disk Doctor is like CHKDSK on steroids but only *WITH* the
added tools
| in the Norton Utilities suite. Disk Doctor alone doesn't
outshine
| CHKDSK. Do you need the bloat of the suite when you want to
just use
| Disk Doctor's duplicated functionality of CHKDSK? I got rid of
Norton
| Utilities first from SystemWorks Pro when I had replaced each
of its
| utilities with something free or better. When I no longer
needed Ghost
| (after comparing it against DriveImage), and WinFax became a
dead-end
| product (and Windows XP includes a faxing service for the
really basic
| faxing that I need since everything these days is via e-mail),
and I
| couldn't use GoBack because it usurps the MBR bootstrap area
which
| obviated using a multiboot manager (and GoBack won't chain the
bootstrap
| programs as do some security products, like Safeboot) then I
finally
| dumped Systemworks Pro. For those that don't want to hunt for
equal or
| better utilities, many of which are free, then the synergy of
buying
| into a tool suite is tempting because it is easy.
|
|
 >> Stay informed about: disc repair