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MEB

External


Since: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 310



(Msg. 31) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:58 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: microsoft>public>win98>gen_discussion (more info?)

Debated upon whether I would get into this ridiculous argument, but:
I'll just add this comment, which happens to coincide with most of the
material on the subject. [Oh boy another web page]

Fragmentation happens to cause significant impact upon hard drives,
particularly in the NT/XP environment as files are not stored in the fashion
one would [non-informed] generally think off.

Ponder upon these overly simplified explanations:

Many files are created or modified each time their application is run or
accessed, and the system does not use the next available hard drive space to
place those file segments/additions, but may place them in any unused space
on the disk. This creates files which might extend from the base address
[fat address or MFT] to anywhere else on the partition handled by jump
instructions or other, which indicates the location of the next segment
needed. These may once again be jumped to the next segment that may actually
be at the opposite end of the disk/partition. Picture that happening several
dozen times during the access of that one file. During this time, the hard
drive controller, OS, and the algorithms used, may place other segments
elsewhere on the disk, either temporarily or permanently.
Think of a large file and picture the number of additional head movements
needed to access JUST that one file and the extra time [additional
nanoseconds] needed, then consider that there are likely a dozen or more
additional files [dlls and other exes, etc.] needed for that one application
which are also fragmented taking that same whipping head motion picking up a
fragment here and there...
Now let's picture that application has a data base of information, new
information is added to that base but is stored wherever it was created.
After running that same application and saving those new bits of data, that
data base now exists in several thousand non-contiguous sectors of the hard
drive. To view or access that data base ALL those segments must be found and
brought together for the visual display, so these scattered bits are
temporarily collected in the swap file and/or memory.
All of this, of course, takes more head movement and time than if the files
were contiguous and the application's other needed files were also closer
together.

A good indication is when intermittent Windows errors begin to show up for
some reason or hard drive access times become excessive. If one goes to Safe
Mode, shuts off Windows handling of virtual memory [swap] then deletes the
win386.swp file after a restart in DOS, restarts to Safe mode and defrags,
then turns ON Windows management when done; restarting to Windows Normal
Mode and behavior will be noticeably improved. Part of the reason is that
the SWAP file is no longer scattered all over the disk, and is contiguous
[Fat systems]. NT's defragmentation is of course different as are the
results..

Regarding new installations and defragging:

A major misconception is that a newly installed OS is defragmented and
arraigned closely on the disk. As the files are expanded areas of the disk,
various areas are used to hold temporary copies of those files in any
available area of the disk. Each file may first be copied, then expanded,
then added to the proper directory; or may be placed in temporary storage
pending installation order, then placed with some directory [listed as part
of].
Each time the file is written, it takes up space on the drive, which may or
may not be the next contiguous area, and may be some scattered areas upon
the disk [other segments of files may already be using an area which might
have been used].
The directories themselves [via the table] assign the "base" area then list
the various temporary and permanent locations of the files listed under the
various directories. Nothing at this stage requires these files are actually
assigned an area of the disk in which all the directory's files are located
within a specific segment of the disk, e.g., one file after the other or one
sector after the other. Continuing to use a newly installed disk without
ever defragmenting it, will eventually cause errors and at minimum, slower
loading times; noticeable after extended usage.

The first defragmentation done on a disk attempts to align the various
individual segments of the files into contiguous areas/segments. If one has
used something like "Align for faster Windows Loading" [MSDeFrag - not a
recommended setting}, then the files are arraigned according to the
monitored access, space required while running, and other factors held
[created by taskmon] in C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG\ and using Logitec Mouse as
example LOGI_MWX.LGC to supposedly place the file in an area conducive to
its loading and any additional space it might require while loading/running
[some exe files temporarily expand on disk and become fragmented in the
process]. IF this is a fairly new system or taskmon has been disabled then
the files will NOT be arraigned properly as there is not enough saved
details.
Successive deframentations generally take less time, and decrease file
movement.. Watch a defragment tool: it checks the fats, then folders; then
files, and only adjusts what has or is fragmented [unless one uses the Align
for Faster Windows which WILL constantly move files around based upon the
logic files {which is why its not recommended}]

Now, should any wish to complain this provides no conclusive proof, then
they should get off their dead behinds and actually look at a fragmemented
disk and defragmented disk with a hex/disk editor. THEN come back and post,
maybe someone will listen, though I doubt it ...
Or if you like visuals displays, then run MS Defrag and look at the
details,, and watch it move files around trying to place all the file
segments together.

The short answer is: defragmentation can decrease OS access times and
reduce wear and tear on your hard disk. Load times ARE NOT a definitive
display of problems with defragmentation, but with the routines used, and
INCLUDING a fragmented swap file.

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________

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glee1

External


Since: Dec 15, 2003
Posts: 1417



(Msg. 32) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:12 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lord Turkey Breath, who defragged a hard drive once and now thinks he is an expert
on disk defragmenters, wrote in message
news:8l2tj.297$St5.134@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Tilly821" wrote in message news:Tilly821.34s9bc@DoNotSpam.com...
>>
>> snip
>> Here is a true independent whitepaper:
>> http://files.diskeeper.com/pdf/IDC_Defrag_WhitePaper_2003.pdf
>> Conducted by IDC (International Data Corporation) and sponsered by
>> American Business Research Corporation. Both are reputable companies.
>> (Its about Diskeeper, so of course they would want to include it on
>> their site.
>
> The are buisnesses who's only reason de etre is to make money any
> which way they can.
> http://www.idg.com/www/HomeNew.nsf/docs/corporate_profile
>
> Their 'research' is about as reliable as the nutritional information on
> a packe of sausasges.
> snip

Your bad spelling aside, you now reveal to the readers here your desperation to make
yourself appear correct. What you hope to prove by linking the corporate profile of
IDG in fact proves the opposite. IDG is a respected publisher and promoter of IT
conferences. Among their IT related publications are: Australian Macworld,
Australian PC World, CIO Magazine, Computer Dealer News, Computerworld, PC World,
and a couple hundred more similar publications and associated websites.
http://www.idg.com/www/HomeNew.nsf/docs/Brands
http://www.idg.com/www/idgproducts.nsf/typeform?readform&type=publication

Similarly, American Business Research Corporation has sponsored a large number of
surveys, polls, and reports used by IT departments, among others.

Your ridiculous contention throughout this thread that we should disregard any
reports by companies that make defragmenters because they are in the business of
selling disk defragmenters, is as asinine as saying we should disregard all
information about viruses from anti-virus software companies because they are in the
business of selling anti-virus software.

As I stated earlier in the thread, the effects of defragmenting on performance will
vary depending upon the size and free space of the drive as well as the type of
files frequently created or modified. Your blanket contention that defragmenters
are of no use is, like most generalizations and blanket proclamations, absurd
because it does not consider any disk usage pattern other than your own.

I think the readers here can easily see how little such a generalization is worth.
--
Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
http://dts-l.net/
http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm

 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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Lord Turkey Cough

External


Since: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 17



(Msg. 33) Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:41 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
news:O9yKkI2bIHA.5900@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> As I said, I won't argue based upon pure speculation. The studies are out
> there, as suggested by Glee, for instance. If you want answers, that's
> your path. I guarantee you that I have plenty of experience with defrag,
> it's effects on performance and it's potential damage to the disk. So much
> that I can't really pick one off the top of my head and would have to go
> searching. So, yes, I could spend another few days tossing balderdash back
> and forth, but I choose to cease participating as of now. Your entire
> argument, attitude and even your name are more than a little disgusting.
> Sorry, just can't do it any more.

Well you have not been 'doing it at all' just links to software retailers
sites.
Not one ounce of independant evidence.
No proof no nothing.
Just an air of pomposity.
So as you can't put up it is gracious, at least, of you, to shut up.

>
> --
> Gary S. Terhune
> MS-MVP Shell/User
> www.grystmill.com
>
> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:K%1tj.552$d62.229@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
>> news:%23rFbzOzbIHA.4344@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>> What you rely upon is called "anecdotal" evidence. I have lots of that
>>> stuff regarding Defrag,
>>
>> Yes so much you are unable to produce any as evidence.
>>
>>>and it all contradicts yours. Particularly older systems with small
>>>drives, regular defragging almost always produces marked improvement in
>>>performance. (If the machine isn't being used much, defrag obviously
>>>won't help *much*, but then maintenance can be scheduled much less
>>>frequently.) Only if the drive is already sketchy and if defrag is run
>>>WAY TOO MUCH (daily), is there any risk of damage. The amount of work you
>>>put the drive through is balanced by reducing the amount of excessive
>>>thrashing that occurs on a fragmented disk.
>>>
>>> My recommendation has always been to schedule maintenance once a month
>>> for a well-used personal machine, less often for a lightly used machine,
>>> but much more often for a heavy working machine, especially one that has
>>> constantly used databases. How often becomes a question of how much you
>>> want the machine down for maintenance.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gary S. Terhune
>>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>>> www.grystmill.com
>>>
>>> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
>>> news:%VNsj.91$Ef1.63@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
>>>> news:O7S8DwqbIHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>>>>>I see. It's obviously so, it must be so, therefore it is so.
>>>>>
>>>>> I asked you for real data and you give me pure speculation. I have no
>>>>> wish to engage in speculation, though for your sake I hope an expert
>>>>> comes along and gives you a good discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am 'expert' enough thank you.
>>>>
>>>> OK real data for you.
>>>>
>>>> 1. I have defragged before and I took the time to make a
>>>> a note of the time taken for certain operations, boot up
>>>> etc.... Result no noticable difference, infact it even took longer
>>>> to boot up, there was no performance benefit whatsoever.
>>>> *Infact* if anything my machine was slower.
>>>>
>>>> So there is one piece of real data.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Goto step 1.
>>>>
>>>> Quite remarkable, you won't find any facts or figure for the
>>>> performance
>>>> increase from a defrag from the sellers of defrag software.
>>>> I did not one produce had a * after performance increase, eg
>>>> performance increase*
>>>>
>>>> *performance increase may be unpredictable.
>>>>
>>>> Which is a nice way of covering it from being sued when it makes no
>>>> difference
>>>> or infact gets worse, I assume the 'unpredictability range' includes
>>>> negative increases.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.smartcomputing.com/editorial/article.asp?article=articles%2...07%2Fs1
>>>> "However, a recent study by Diskeeper Corporation (www.diskeeper.com)
>>>> found that a brand-new computer with a fresh installation of WinXP can
>>>> boot about 27% faster after running a basic disk defragmentation."
>>>>
>>>> Hmmm...an 'independant' study by a company selling defrag software!!
>>>>
>>>> And what an interesting study it is, because a brand new computer will
>>>> of course
>>>> be already defragged in the first place!!
>>>>
>>>> Anyway defragging is a waste of time, I know that from experience as I
>>>> have done
>>>> it a few times myself on a different machine, performance is either
>>>> worse or it makes
>>>> no difference. And it's a big let down when you find you wasted all
>>>> that time for no effect,
>>>> it will seem slower even if it is the same because the performance
>>>> increase you expected
>>>> won't be there.
>>>> Of course you computer will tend to get slower over time but that is
>>>> generally because
>>>> you have more stuff installed on it, and the only way to cure that is
>>>> to uninstall it.
>>>>
>>>> So....it ain't broke so I ain't fixing it :O)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Gary S. Terhune
>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>>>>> www.grystmill.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:9UKsj.46$Ef1.42@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gary S. Terhune" <none> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:eQ0ngsobIHA.4752@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:2Ivsj.7701$OU5.240@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Ron Martell" <ron.martell DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:5bi1r3h832q6d313r2bb2i9igdfhqfvnh8@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump DeleteThis @invalid.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Pepperoni" <Pepperoni DeleteThis @discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:CE574FD5-CC58-4D0C-99B0-EECFFA1C7BC0@microsoft.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> My disk defragmetor keeps running in a loop and I have tried
>>>>>>>>>>> everything i
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> and nothing seems to be working. So, if you have any help to
>>>>>>>>>>> offer please
>>>>>>>>>>> tell me.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Defragging is a waste of time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Balderdash.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Fragmented files will be slower to load, and if they are badly
>>>>>>>>> fragmented the slowdown can be crippling. Not too long ago I
>>>>>>>>> encountered a system where their master database (inventory - file
>>>>>>>>> size approximately 100 megabytes) was in over 10 thousand
>>>>>>>>> fragments
>>>>>>>>> and the users were complaining about slow performance. One
>>>>>>>>> simple
>>>>>>>>> defrag (took several hours) and the speedup was tremendous.
>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>> now have a scheduled task to defrag the file weekly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't believe that for a minute.
>>>>>>>> Defragging actually slows a computer down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Balderdash.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviusly a system lacking in drive space and memory is going to be
>>>>>>>> slow, but you need to upgrade not defrag.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're talking about an entirely different subject, there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another benefit of regular defragging is hard drive failure, how
>>>>>>>> lovely,
>>>>>>>> lost your entire database , yum yum.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Got any references there? Actual tests?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wears out your hard drive.
>>>>>> I mean that is pretty self evident isn't it?
>>>>>> It's a bit lilke driving 5,000 miles in your car every week and
>>>>>> expecting it
>>>>>> to last 5 years - it's not going to happen.These are mechanical
>>>>>> devices
>>>>>> and hence wear out. I my self have never had a drive failure as I
>>>>>> treat mine
>>>>>> with respect. Several hours of hard thrashing takes it toll. The
>>>>>> bearing don't
>>>>>> get time to cool down and fail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Gary S. Terhune
>>>>>>> MS-MVP Shell/User
>>>>>>> www.grystmill.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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Lord Turkey Cough

External


Since: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 17



(Msg. 34) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"glee" <glee29 DeleteThis @spamindspring.com> wrote in message
news:us8pEk4bIHA.1188@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Lord Turkey Breath, who defragged a hard drive once and now thinks he is
> an expert on disk defragmenters, wrote in message
> news:8l2tj.297$St5.134@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
>>
>> "Tilly821" wrote in message news:Tilly821.34s9bc@DoNotSpam.com...
>>>
>>> snip
>>> Here is a true independent whitepaper:
>>> http://files.diskeeper.com/pdf/IDC_Defrag_WhitePaper_2003.pdf
>>> Conducted by IDC (International Data Corporation) and sponsered by
>>> American Business Research Corporation. Both are reputable companies.
>>> (Its about Diskeeper, so of course they would want to include it on
>>> their site.
>>
>> The are buisnesses who's only reason de etre is to make money any
>> which way they can.
>> http://www.idg.com/www/HomeNew.nsf/docs/corporate_profile
>>
>> Their 'research' is about as reliable as the nutritional information on
>> a packe of sausasges.
>> snip
>
> Your bad spelling aside, you now reveal to the readers here your
> desperation to make yourself appear correct. What you hope to prove by
> linking the corporate profile of IDG in fact proves the opposite. IDG is
> a respected publisher and promoter of IT conferences. Among their IT
> related publications are: Australian Macworld, Australian PC World, CIO
> Magazine, Computer Dealer News, Computerworld, PC World, and a couple
> hundred more similar publications and associated websites.

All of whom are saphrasites of the parasetic software/PC industry

> http://www.idg.com/www/HomeNew.nsf/docs/Brands
> http://www.idg.com/www/idgproducts.nsf/typeform?readform&type=publication
>
> Similarly, American Business Research Corporation has sponsored a large
> number of surveys, polls, and reports used by IT departments, among
> others.
>
> Your ridiculous contention throughout this thread that we should disregard
> any reports by companies that make defragmenters because they are in the
> business of selling disk defragmenters, is as asinine as saying we should
> disregard all information about viruses from anti-virus software companies
> because they are in the business of selling anti-virus software.

(Or the report from tobacco companies that cigarettes don't cause cancer.)

You are not far off the mark there!
Actually did a virus scan today for laugh, it reported soomething which
returned nothing in google.
Looked like it was part of some DVD package.

Anyway here it is!! The file was called ultradvdchcker02.ver



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"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
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<head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=iso-8859-1" /><title>
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</title>
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content="dvd,player,software,free,pc,morph,copy,players,players,players" />
<meta name="description" content="Experience Blu-Ray & HD bDVD/b Playback
Excellence w/ PowerDVD 7." />
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SRC='/dvd-player-software.com.js?f302=1&rrm=3'></SCRIPT>
<link
href='/css/w01/t101.css?def=Akamai%3aHostingURL%3dhttp%3a%2f%2fi.nuseek.com%7cBdyStyl%3aPageBackgroundColor%3d%23fff%7cBdyStyl%3aFont%3darial%7cBdyStyl%3aFontSize%3d12%7cBdyStyl%3aFontColor%3d%230e5fd8%7cBdyStyl%3aPrimaryColor%3d%231b5709%7cBdyStyl%3aPrimaryColorComplement%3d%23fff%7cBdyStyl%3aSecondaryColor%3d%23c44242%7cBdyStyl%3aSecondaryColorComplement%3d%23fff%7cBdyStyl%3aTertiaryColor%3d%23f3f3f3%7cBdyStyl%3aTertiaryColorComplement%3d%23476ec7%7cPgHdr%3aFontSize%3d18%7cPgHdr%3aFont%3dVerdana%7cRelLink%3aFont%3darial%7cRelLink%3aFontSize%3d14%7cRelLink%3aFontColor%3d%23476ec7%7cRelLink%3aHoverFontColor%3d%23c03625%7cRelLink%3aBackgroundColor%3d%23fafad9%7cRelLink%3aDividerColor%3d%23e2dfb8%7cRelLink%3aHoverBackgroundColor%3d%23fbfbf5%7cRelLink%3aImagePath%3d%2fimages%2fmisc%2fbullets%2f0006.gif%7cRelLink%3aImageWidth%3d10%7cRelLink%3aImageHeight%3d10%7cResult%3aImagePath%3d%2fimages%2fmisc%2fbullets%2f0006.gif%7cResult%3aHeaderFont%3darial%7cResult%3aHeaderFontSize%3d12%7cResult%3aHeaderFontColor%3d%23000%7cResult%3aTitleFont%3darial%7cResult%3aTitleFontSize%3d16%7cResult%3aTitleFontColor%3d%2300c%7cResult%3aAbstractFont%3darial%7cResult%3aAbstractFontSize%3d12%7cResult%3aAbstractFontColor%3d%23000%7cResult%3aURLFont%3darial%7cResult%3aURLFontSize%3d12%7cResult%3aURLFontColor%3d%23008000%7cResult%3aSidebarBorderColor%3d%23ccc%7cSrchBox%3aTextboxWidth%3d200%7cSrchBox%3aImagePath%3d%2fimages%2fmisc%2fbuttons%2f0006.gif%7cSrchBox%3aImageWidth%3d60%7cSrchBox%3aImageHeight%3d22%7cSrchBox%3aAlign%3dright%7cSearchLinkGroup%3aHoverLinkColor%3d%23ff9%7cUsrCust%3aFontType%3dverdana%7cUsrCust%3aFontSize%3d11%7cUsrCust%3aFontColor%3d%23666%7cUsrCust%3aLinkColor%3d%230e5fd8'
rel='stylesheet' title='default' type='text/css' />

<script language="javascript" type="Text/Javascript">
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<div class="header"><h1><a href="http://dvd-player-software.com">Welcome
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<div class="resMain"><h2>Sponsored listings for DVD Player
Software:</h2><ul><li
onclick="javascript:pcNav('?tu=http%3a%2f%2frc10.overture.com%2fd%2fsr%2f%3fxargs%3d15KPjg151SkZamwretdb3PSueKwl4axca59c9rD5R8HtZIoS5gVed8a6vHksV5W7064w%255FVyfeU%255FaEUK%255Fvymf2IFAiKTFuID7Kh0Y3DzY00M6YZb%252DQYirEvwevrl9J7D3wQMy68fJKErvqNLdL%252DP2g4pswOzByc%252DPNnwMe1xeMIQevVig0sskqFc5Zxm9EsgbqxKOwOS7UjfqvrhXfFfZwQ%252D%252DxtkeysPyRkLl2h5m0a9VeHIC55v6zJfZEIu7Xny9uVPaWpjJkCOg3GtuQgt0jSji%255FfnJwyY3f278dJ8Nc2KLyVUH%255FZDDsfiPjSjOSKftE24G%255FyJpjbVR6jNAA7ahQ1X6HtKgSGKGAqs0TXR6wFfMm4q2GzAKfXACEGUmM%252E&du=www.CyberLink.com%2fpowerdvd&rs=946611020&r=1&dn=dvd-player-software.com&st=&ac=0&tmid=101&thid=107&anid=57&rlsid=1&wid=1&pn=YahooDM&ref=&rst=&rpn=0&dw=0&rlt=0&sc=-1%3d1%2c0%3d1&sid=b402c3dc-8833-41dc-987b-5f0bb6a1fcdc&vip=10.5.2.108&adt=0&vid=64527c65-53da-410f-8047-f81c1c395ea2&ici=0&rlrt=1&rllt=related&di=&spc=5&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dvd-player-software.com%3a80%2fultradvd.ver');"
onmouseover="status='www.CyberLink.com/powerdvd'; return true;"
onmouseout="status=''; return true;"><span class="titleJS">Cyberlink
Powerdvd 7</span><br /><span class="abstract">Experience Blu-Ray & HD
<b>DVD</b> Playback Excellence w/ PowerDVD 7.</span><br /><span
class="url">www.CyberLink.com/powerdvd</span></li><li
onclick="javascript:pcNav('?tu=http%3a%2f%2frc10.overture.com%2fd%2fsr%2f%3fxargs%3d15KPjg155SjJamwr2sfLTJTuOEw14axca588NtBpNwH9df5iMxXOZ4bKDIk8F4RPo2swPSy%255FSX%255FaIfK%255Ff%252DkfiNEAyJRg%252D9L73y347DxIk%255FMxuXYY5KhrMoxOnqnoZLfEw2fi68eNG3nvidYdvwOX5djddAwByb%252DfFpx863xO8bBuuJ1QAnrxXCcMkJmNZYhMy1W5t%255FTbNSCdjr4TDHI5FAm%252DxFpeylNiEWXi3U520OvAWNIzRhp7DPeI4X0ZDBpJnJPe6p2o1OKxjCvaEh%252DF3JnzramMg2ICvXhMc%255F5E5kwpmfd1PtzQ%252DrmJ7%255F2v%255FbP400s2XxFpG2Q3O1DhYuPgVnA%252DfkPlHIdDkx4AjWKcVySIqj%252DjXvQryGG3EqY3Ix3w%252E%252E&du=www.prosoft3d.com&rs=946611020&r=2&dn=dvd-player-software.com&st=&ac=0&tmid=101&thid=107&anid=57&rlsid=1&wid=1&pn=YahooDM&ref=&rst=&rpn=0&dw=0&rlt=0&sc=-1%3d1%2c0%3d1&sid=b402c3dc-8833-41dc-987b-5f0bb6a1fcdc&vip=10.5.2.108&adt=0&vid=64527c65-53da-410f-8047-f81c1c395ea2&ici=0&rlrt=1&rllt=related&di=&spc=5&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dvd-player-software.com%3a80%2fultradvd.ver');"
onmouseover="status='www.prosoft3d.com'; return true;"
onmouseout="status=''; return true;"><span class="titleJS">NEW - <b>DVD</b>
<b>Player</b> 5.0 <b>Software</b> - $9.95</span><br /><span
class="abstract">Play all your <b>DVDs</b> on your computer with <b>DVD</b>
<b>Player</b> 5.0. Download.</span><br /><span
class="url">www.prosoft3d.com</span></li><li
onclick="javascript:pcNav('?tu=http%3a%2f%2frc10.overture.com%2fd%2fsr%2f%3fxargs%3d15KPjg15tSn5amwrercr3AS%252DGAw14axca58MtsDpJ7GtRc5iMxXOh4aafAm8x4Tfo2swPRyfST%255FKUUJfv%255Fm%255F%252DOEgeNQluAEfWugoHFy4w6Mq2hWYlxsOwhw%252D%255FpmY5INHytUy68epaErvqNLdX5P2g4pswOzB6Q%255FfBuxc%252D1xeYIQevVig0sskqFc5Zxm9EsgbqxKOwOS7UjfqvrhXfFfZwQ%252D%252DxtkeysPyRkLl2h5m0a9VeHIC55v6zJfZEIu7Xny9uVPaWpjJkCOg3GtuQgt0jSji%255FfnJwyY3f278dJ8Nc2KLyVUH%255FZDDsfiPjSjOSKftE24G%255FyJpjbVR6jNAA7ahQ1X6HtKgSGKGIqs0TXR6sFfMuo%252DCG%252DCKfXTy0ndAIM7vKECA%252E%252E&du=www.sonic.com&rs=946611020&r=3&dn=dvd-player-software.com&st=&ac=0&tmid=101&thid=107&anid=57&rlsid=1&wid=1&pn=YahooDM&ref=&rst=&rpn=0&dw=0&rlt=0&sc=-1%3d1%2c0%3d1&sid=b402c3dc-8833-41dc-987b-5f0bb6a1fcdc&vip=10.5.2.108&adt=0&vid=64527c65-53da-410f-8047-f81c1c395ea2&ici=0&rlrt=1&rllt=related&di=&spc=5&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dvd-player-software.com%3a80%2fultradvd.ver');"
onmouseover="status='www.sonic.com'; return true;" onmouseout="status='';
return true;"><span class="titleJS">New <b>DVD</b> Decoder</span><br /><span
class="abstract">Sonic's powerful new <b>DVD</b> Decoder allows you to play
<b>DVDs</b> on your PC.</span><br /><span
class="url">www.sonic.com</span></li><li
onclick="javascript:pcNav('?tu=http%3a%2f%2frc10.overture.com%2fd%2fsr%2f%3fxargs%3d15KPjg14FSmpamwr%252DjfbXISeKKwlsaxca588toDJd5HNVf8mQ8De19aqDHnMd4Sexn%252DF%252DNwPOX%255F6AeK%255Ff4m%255F%252DKEQ6JQ1GOHeT6yt2awIo7P6ijWNNPgvMa8bXkm4RMO3YOa20ZSOP%252Dk%252D3MZOHJKz9G%255FI8CzQvqpbJjwMe%255FxOMZFrPQ3UQpqlGGfs9N%252D%255FF7jLm1WJ8JPMBUCd6YlFCXAu5Wmo94kL2UDjgTKSOj4BkK3FmCJiYgrKnJYokXu7HwhI6aafWsyNQKLRCDtKgyoUvU2T3Cn84kZzjXn%252DIMnSpiP7uc6Qi%252Dn2If7bdbvML5P401szC5GJvUQi%252DoPC0vfgceBvarfEOPYWw%252D5gjWK5hCZ5j0qheHQ7yOG3Flb1AXvt61GfY2&du=www.ToshibaHDDVD.com&rs=946611020&r=4&dn=dvd-player-software.com&st=&ac=0&tmid=101&thid=107&anid=57&rlsid=1&wid=1&pn=YahooDM&ref=&rst=&rpn=0&dw=0&rlt=0&sc=-1%3d1%2c0%3d1&sid=b402c3dc-8833-41dc-987b-5f0bb6a1fcdc&vip=10.5.2.108&adt=0&vid=64527c65-53da-410f-8047-f81c1c395ea2&ici=0&rlrt=1&rllt=related&di=&spc=5&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dvd-player-software.com%3a80%2fultradvd.ver');"
onmouseover="status='www.ToshibaHDDVD.com'; return true;"
onmouseout="status=''; return true;"><span class="titleJS">Toshiba
HD-A30</span><br /><span class="abstract">Next-Generation HD-<b>DVD</b>
<b>Player</b> Available Now. Learn More Today.</span><br /><span
class="url">www.ToshibaHDDVD.com</span></li><li
onclick="javascript:pcNav('?tu=http%3a%2f%2frc10.overture.com%2fd%2fsr%2f%3fxargs%3d15KPjg15RSnpamwryid7rLT%252DGAw14axca598trDph5H9Rf5iMxXOF7Z6DCnMZ7ROVxv1PdzvuS%255F6YVJPL5mfyPEw6LQFWJEfWugoHBy4I6P62n4OcYP4Uex%252DzhmoXiDU8dImOycNKoz6%255FBI9X5KQ0TvYICyR%252DR9fZswMeyx%255FFPQbeKhwYx7Q2GLO5ynKUp977CX50ITcRUDauPwnWbcMxw%252D8R0keWlOlYUXiig5nlTp12EOjZho6rMYo4LuaOgzoLML7ft3IUPIhHR5Lc8vlrRmDzI39s2Ow7k%255FaM5GWxnXMLMJT5ZuDsP%255FqPfmqOMJIk94W3AHc6beCWiIwJtLQF8UKf%255FbQ3TIHdtuE6zTdZLc8%252Ds%252DCO2FuDEACAxM14AzuOE&du=www.circuitcity.com&rs=946611020&r=5&dn=dvd-player-software.com&st=&ac=0&tmid=101&thid=107&anid=57&rlsid=1&wid=1&pn=YahooDM&ref=&rst=&rpn=0&dw=0&rlt=0&sc=-1%3d1%2c0%3d1&sid=b402c3dc-8833-41dc-987b-5f0bb6a1fcdc&vip=10.5.2.108&adt=0&vid=64527c65-53da-410f-8047-f81c1c395ea2&ici=0&rlrt=1&rllt=related&di=&spc=5&su=http%3a%2f%2fwww.dvd-player-software.com%3a80%2fultradvd.ver');"
onmouseover="status='www.circuitcity.com'; return true;"
onmouseout="status=''; return true;"><span class="titleJS"><b>DVD</b>
<b>Player</b> <b>Software</b>: Circuit City</span><br /><span
class="abstract">Circuit City - Official Site. Free Shipping on Orders $24
and Up.</span><br /><span
class="url">www.circuitcity.com</span></li></ul><span
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>
> As I stated earlier in the thread, the effects of defragmenting on
> performance will vary depending upon the size and free space of the drive
> as well as the type of files frequently created or modified. Your blanket
> contention that defragmenters are of no use is, like most generalizations
> and blanket proclamations, absurd because it does not consider any disk
> usage pattern other than your own.

I maintain defraging is a waste of time, I have had my PC over 2 years and
have never
defragged, my PC runs like a dream and nothing a Software salesman says will
convince me otherwise.

You have seen the riduclous claim that a brand hew PC, and hence already
defragged
PC, can have its performance increase by 27% and yet you are still not
willing
to accept that these people are little more than con artists.


>
> I think the readers here can easily see how little such a generalization
> is worth.
> --
> Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+
> http://dts-l.net/
> http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
>
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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Lord Turkey Cough

External


Since: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 17



(Msg. 35) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Buffalo" <Eric.RemoveThis@nada.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:e4idnVM1XIcYZinanZ2dnUVZ_t2inZ2d@comcast.com...
> Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
> [snip]
>>> It didn't feel any faster because it was not any faster
>> I timed the boot up time and it infact took longer after defragging.
>> FACT not anecdote.
> [snip]
>
> So, just because the boot up time was longer, that proves your point?
> I guess you think that because the boot up time was slower, all the
> computer
> functions and programs were also slower.
> Pretty flawed thinking. Jumping to conclusions.
> I also don't believe the 'miraculous' speed increases promoted by
> Diskeeper,
> but I do listen to Glee and Gary , not blindly, but open-mindidly(I
> probably
> mispelled it). They are very informative and accurate 99.9% of the time.
>
> Being bullheaded and argumentive can be a way of life, but there are more
> fun approaches which can be more productive and enjoyable.

I am being neither, your only 'evidence' that I am is that
"They are very informative and accurate 99.9% of the time",
Have you done any tests yourself?
I suspect not.
Blindly accepting people are right because 'they usually are'
may be beneficial at times but it can also be disasterous.


>
> Buffalo
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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Lord Turkey Cough

External


Since: Jan 30, 2008
Posts: 17



(Msg. 36) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:44 am
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

The proof of the puffing is in the eating.
All the detailed explantions in the world will not change
test results which contradict them.

It's a case of once bitten twice shy, and I have been bitten
2 or 3 times by the defragging myth. I don't intend getting bitten anymore.



"MEB" <meb@not here RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Q8LId4bIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>
> Debated upon whether I would get into this ridiculous argument, but:
> I'll just add this comment, which happens to coincide with most of the
> material on the subject. [Oh boy another web page]
>
> Fragmentation happens to cause significant impact upon hard drives,
> particularly in the NT/XP environment as files are not stored in the
> fashion
> one would [non-informed] generally think off.
>
> Ponder upon these overly simplified explanations:
>
> Many files are created or modified each time their application is run or
> accessed, and the system does not use the next available hard drive space
> to
> place those file segments/additions, but may place them in any unused
> space
> on the disk. This creates files which might extend from the base address
> [fat address or MFT] to anywhere else on the partition handled by jump
> instructions or other, which indicates the location of the next segment
> needed. These may once again be jumped to the next segment that may
> actually
> be at the opposite end of the disk/partition. Picture that happening
> several
> dozen times during the access of that one file. During this time, the hard
> drive controller, OS, and the algorithms used, may place other segments
> elsewhere on the disk, either temporarily or permanently.
> Think of a large file and picture the number of additional head movements
> needed to access JUST that one file and the extra time [additional
> nanoseconds] needed, then consider that there are likely a dozen or more
> additional files [dlls and other exes, etc.] needed for that one
> application
> which are also fragmented taking that same whipping head motion picking up
> a
> fragment here and there...
> Now let's picture that application has a data base of information, new
> information is added to that base but is stored wherever it was created.
> After running that same application and saving those new bits of data,
> that
> data base now exists in several thousand non-contiguous sectors of the
> hard
> drive. To view or access that data base ALL those segments must be found
> and
> brought together for the visual display, so these scattered bits are
> temporarily collected in the swap file and/or memory.
> All of this, of course, takes more head movement and time than if the
> files
> were contiguous and the application's other needed files were also closer
> together.
>
> A good indication is when intermittent Windows errors begin to show up for
> some reason or hard drive access times become excessive. If one goes to
> Safe
> Mode, shuts off Windows handling of virtual memory [swap] then deletes the
> win386.swp file after a restart in DOS, restarts to Safe mode and defrags,
> then turns ON Windows management when done; restarting to Windows Normal
> Mode and behavior will be noticeably improved. Part of the reason is that
> the SWAP file is no longer scattered all over the disk, and is contiguous
> [Fat systems]. NT's defragmentation is of course different as are the
> results..
>
> Regarding new installations and defragging:
>
> A major misconception is that a newly installed OS is defragmented and
> arraigned closely on the disk. As the files are expanded areas of the
> disk,
> various areas are used to hold temporary copies of those files in any
> available area of the disk. Each file may first be copied, then expanded,
> then added to the proper directory; or may be placed in temporary storage
> pending installation order, then placed with some directory [listed as
> part
> of].
> Each time the file is written, it takes up space on the drive, which may
> or
> may not be the next contiguous area, and may be some scattered areas upon
> the disk [other segments of files may already be using an area which might
> have been used].
> The directories themselves [via the table] assign the "base" area then
> list
> the various temporary and permanent locations of the files listed under
> the
> various directories. Nothing at this stage requires these files are
> actually
> assigned an area of the disk in which all the directory's files are
> located
> within a specific segment of the disk, e.g., one file after the other or
> one
> sector after the other. Continuing to use a newly installed disk without
> ever defragmenting it, will eventually cause errors and at minimum, slower
> loading times; noticeable after extended usage.
>
> The first defragmentation done on a disk attempts to align the various
> individual segments of the files into contiguous areas/segments. If one
> has
> used something like "Align for faster Windows Loading" [MSDeFrag - not a
> recommended setting}, then the files are arraigned according to the
> monitored access, space required while running, and other factors held
> [created by taskmon] in C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG\ and using Logitec Mouse as
> example LOGI_MWX.LGC to supposedly place the file in an area conducive to
> its loading and any additional space it might require while
> loading/running
> [some exe files temporarily expand on disk and become fragmented in the
> process]. IF this is a fairly new system or taskmon has been disabled then
> the files will NOT be arraigned properly as there is not enough saved
> details.
> Successive deframentations generally take less time, and decrease file
> movement.. Watch a defragment tool: it checks the fats, then folders; then
> files, and only adjusts what has or is fragmented [unless one uses the
> Align
> for Faster Windows which WILL constantly move files around based upon the
> logic files {which is why its not recommended}]
>
> Now, should any wish to complain this provides no conclusive proof, then
> they should get off their dead behinds and actually look at a fragmemented
> disk and defragmented disk with a hex/disk editor. THEN come back and
> post,
> maybe someone will listen, though I doubt it ...
> Or if you like visuals displays, then run MS Defrag and look at the
> details,, and watch it move files around trying to place all the file
> segments together.
>
> The short answer is: defragmentation can decrease OS access times and
> reduce wear and tear on your hard disk. Load times ARE NOT a definitive
> display of problems with defragmentation, but with the routines used, and
> INCLUDING a fragmented swap file.
>
> --
>
> MEB
> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
> _________
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Gary S. Terhune

External


Since: Mar 23, 2007
Posts: 386



(Msg. 37) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:31 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

What a total crock. You haven't made any tests worth speaking of. You've
made some observations of one drive. Well, I've made hundreds of similar
observations and they contradict yours 99.99% of the time.

In the case of defragmenting wearing out the drive, you didn't even do any
tests. You just repeated some gossip.

--
Gary S. Terhune
MS-MVP Shell/User
www.grystmill.com

"Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump.RemoveThis@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:64Atj.541$%W6.439@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> The proof of the puffing is in the eating.
> All the detailed explantions in the world will not change
> test results which contradict them.
>
> It's a case of once bitten twice shy, and I have been bitten
> 2 or 3 times by the defragging myth. I don't intend getting bitten
> anymore.
>
>
>
> "MEB" <meb@not here.RemoveThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Q8LId4bIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>
>> Debated upon whether I would get into this ridiculous argument, but:
>> I'll just add this comment, which happens to coincide with most of the
>> material on the subject. [Oh boy another web page]
>>
>> Fragmentation happens to cause significant impact upon hard drives,
>> particularly in the NT/XP environment as files are not stored in the
>> fashion
>> one would [non-informed] generally think off.
>>
>> Ponder upon these overly simplified explanations:
>>
>> Many files are created or modified each time their application is run or
>> accessed, and the system does not use the next available hard drive space
>> to
>> place those file segments/additions, but may place them in any unused
>> space
>> on the disk. This creates files which might extend from the base address
>> [fat address or MFT] to anywhere else on the partition handled by jump
>> instructions or other, which indicates the location of the next segment
>> needed. These may once again be jumped to the next segment that may
>> actually
>> be at the opposite end of the disk/partition. Picture that happening
>> several
>> dozen times during the access of that one file. During this time, the
>> hard
>> drive controller, OS, and the algorithms used, may place other segments
>> elsewhere on the disk, either temporarily or permanently.
>> Think of a large file and picture the number of additional head movements
>> needed to access JUST that one file and the extra time [additional
>> nanoseconds] needed, then consider that there are likely a dozen or more
>> additional files [dlls and other exes, etc.] needed for that one
>> application
>> which are also fragmented taking that same whipping head motion picking
>> up a
>> fragment here and there...
>> Now let's picture that application has a data base of information, new
>> information is added to that base but is stored wherever it was created.
>> After running that same application and saving those new bits of data,
>> that
>> data base now exists in several thousand non-contiguous sectors of the
>> hard
>> drive. To view or access that data base ALL those segments must be found
>> and
>> brought together for the visual display, so these scattered bits are
>> temporarily collected in the swap file and/or memory.
>> All of this, of course, takes more head movement and time than if the
>> files
>> were contiguous and the application's other needed files were also closer
>> together.
>>
>> A good indication is when intermittent Windows errors begin to show up
>> for
>> some reason or hard drive access times become excessive. If one goes to
>> Safe
>> Mode, shuts off Windows handling of virtual memory [swap] then deletes
>> the
>> win386.swp file after a restart in DOS, restarts to Safe mode and
>> defrags,
>> then turns ON Windows management when done; restarting to Windows Normal
>> Mode and behavior will be noticeably improved. Part of the reason is that
>> the SWAP file is no longer scattered all over the disk, and is contiguous
>> [Fat systems]. NT's defragmentation is of course different as are the
>> results..
>>
>> Regarding new installations and defragging:
>>
>> A major misconception is that a newly installed OS is defragmented and
>> arraigned closely on the disk. As the files are expanded areas of the
>> disk,
>> various areas are used to hold temporary copies of those files in any
>> available area of the disk. Each file may first be copied, then expanded,
>> then added to the proper directory; or may be placed in temporary storage
>> pending installation order, then placed with some directory [listed as
>> part
>> of].
>> Each time the file is written, it takes up space on the drive, which may
>> or
>> may not be the next contiguous area, and may be some scattered areas upon
>> the disk [other segments of files may already be using an area which
>> might
>> have been used].
>> The directories themselves [via the table] assign the "base" area then
>> list
>> the various temporary and permanent locations of the files listed under
>> the
>> various directories. Nothing at this stage requires these files are
>> actually
>> assigned an area of the disk in which all the directory's files are
>> located
>> within a specific segment of the disk, e.g., one file after the other or
>> one
>> sector after the other. Continuing to use a newly installed disk without
>> ever defragmenting it, will eventually cause errors and at minimum,
>> slower
>> loading times; noticeable after extended usage.
>>
>> The first defragmentation done on a disk attempts to align the various
>> individual segments of the files into contiguous areas/segments. If one
>> has
>> used something like "Align for faster Windows Loading" [MSDeFrag - not a
>> recommended setting}, then the files are arraigned according to the
>> monitored access, space required while running, and other factors held
>> [created by taskmon] in C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG\ and using Logitec Mouse as
>> example LOGI_MWX.LGC to supposedly place the file in an area conducive to
>> its loading and any additional space it might require while
>> loading/running
>> [some exe files temporarily expand on disk and become fragmented in the
>> process]. IF this is a fairly new system or taskmon has been disabled
>> then
>> the files will NOT be arraigned properly as there is not enough saved
>> details.
>> Successive deframentations generally take less time, and decrease file
>> movement.. Watch a defragment tool: it checks the fats, then folders;
>> then
>> files, and only adjusts what has or is fragmented [unless one uses the
>> Align
>> for Faster Windows which WILL constantly move files around based upon the
>> logic files {which is why its not recommended}]
>>
>> Now, should any wish to complain this provides no conclusive proof, then
>> they should get off their dead behinds and actually look at a
>> fragmemented
>> disk and defragmented disk with a hex/disk editor. THEN come back and
>> post,
>> maybe someone will listen, though I doubt it ...
>> Or if you like visuals displays, then run MS Defrag and look at the
>> details,, and watch it move files around trying to place all the file
>> segments together.
>>
>> The short answer is: defragmentation can decrease OS access times and
>> reduce wear and tear on your hard disk. Load times ARE NOT a definitive
>> display of problems with defragmentation, but with the routines used, and
>> INCLUDING a fragmented swap file.
>>
>> --
>>
>> MEB
>> http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
>> _________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
Back to top
Login to vote
Bill in Co.

External


Since: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 233



(Msg. 38) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:38 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
> The proof of the puffing is in the eating.
> All the detailed explantions in the world will not change
> test results which contradict them.

You haven't presented any, because there aren't any.
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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Bill in Co.

External


Since: Apr 24, 2005
Posts: 233



(Msg. 39) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 2:17 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
> "Bill in Co." <not_really_here RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:OxEwnvNcIHA.6060@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Lord Turkey Cough wrote:
>>> The proof of the puffing is in the eating.
>>> All the detailed explantions in the world will not change
>>> test results which contradict them.
>>
>> You haven't presented any, because there aren't any.
>
> I have.
> Time your PC running normally then defrag and time it again.
> Present you results here.
>
> I am not doing it myself because I know it is a waste of time.

Same here. Touche.
 >> Stay informed about: disk defragmentor 
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MEB

External


Since: Jun 15, 2007
Posts: 310



(Msg. 40) Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:48 pm
Post subject: Re: disk defragmentor [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Lord Turkey Cough" <spamdump RemoveThis @invalid.com> wrote in message
news:64Atj.541$%W6.439@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
| The proof of the puffing is in the eating.
| All the detailed explanations in the world will not change
| test results which contradict them.
|
| It's a case of once bitten twice shy, and I have been bitten
| 2 or 3 times by the defragging myth. I don't intend getting bitten
anymore.
|
|
|


Really??? And where are those test results... got a link or three so we can
verify ...

Did you bother to read the post concerning ONE of the likely reasons for
YOUR supposed problems with defrag [fragmented swap], or did you just blow
them off?
If the swap is in several areas of the drive, after defragging [without
doing as I showed] you will notice a load delay as Windows adjusts to the
new free segments on the disk, the secondary segments may be well back on
the disk, hence longer loads. You will NOT achieve maximum startup speed,
unless you follow the deletion of the swap > defrag > and re-start, because
then the swap will be in one area of the disk [contiguous], rather than two
or more.... In fact, to achieve maximum performance the command line should
be "defrag.exe /P", which even moves some of those files which supposedly
can not be moved. Here's the catch, guess what, I ACTUALLY do physically
test these types of things, AND do use disk editors and other to verify
.....

However, I think this group already realizes that you really aren't
concerned with what actually does or does not occur, you're apparently
primarily interested in spouting uninformed and unproven ideas. You're a
conservative/Republican right?

--

MEB
http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com
_________


| "MEB" <meb@not here RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:%23Q8LId4bIHA.4196@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
| >
| > Debated upon whether I would get into this ridiculous argument, but:
| > I'll just add this comment, which happens to coincide with most of the
| > material on the subject. [Oh boy another web page]
| >
| > Fragmentation happens to cause significant impact upon hard drives,
| > particularly in the NT/XP environment as files are not stored in the
| > fashion
| > one would [non-informed] generally think off.
| >
| > Ponder upon these overly simplified explanations:
| >
| > Many fi